Dr. Bao Johri:
I think from my perspective, digital transformation is fundamentally about intentional change. Hmm. An ongoing strategic evolution that aligns people, technology and processes. Here at Fresno State, when I think about digital transformation, there is a DX stack, right? It consists of culture, people, process, data, and technology. It goes really beyond just adopting new tools or upgrading system. It truly is about fostering a culture that encourages adaptation, innovation, and collaboration.
Joe Gottlieb:
That’s Boa Johri, Chief Information Officer at Fresno State University, describing her institution’s approach to digital transformation as quite simply intentional change. We talked about the people fundamentals, the organizational mechanics, some sample programs, and the creative chemistry that ignites when students, faculty, and staff work on intentional change together. I hope you enjoy our conversation.
Joe Gottlieb:
Welcome to TRANSFORMED, a Higher Digital podcast focused on the new why’s, the new what’s, and the new how’s in higher ed. In each episode, you will experience hosts and guests pulling for the resurgence of higher ed, while identifying and discussing the best practices needed to accomplish that resurgence. Culture, strategy and tactics, planning and execution, people, process, and technology. It’s all on the menu because that’s what’s required to truly transform.
Joe Gottlieb:
Hello, welcome and thanks for joining us for another episode of TRANSFORMED. My name is Joe Gottlieb, President and CTO of Higher Digital, and today I am joined by Dr. Bao Johri, Chief Information Officer at Fresno State University, which serves over 20,000 students in California’s Central Valley. Bao, welcome to Transformed.
Dr. Bao Johri:
Thank you, Joe. Happy to be here. What do we wanna talk about today?
Joe Gottlieb:
Well, I’m glad you asked, Bao. I wanna talk about your thoughts on a somewhat cumbersome topic, but I’m gonna spell it out, intentional IT for intentional higher ed for intentional students. There’s a bit of a theme there in case you noticed, but first, before we get into that, I’d love for you to talk a little bit about your background, how you got involved with higher ed, and how it really drives you for the work that you do.
Dr. Bao Johri:
Thank you, Joe. I was born in Laos and arrived in the United States when I was five years old. I grew up in Stockton, part of the Central Valley. In a traditional Hmong household. Being the youngest, I was fortunate to stay in school longer than any of my siblings. So for me, college, you know, wasn’t just a dream, but truly it was a mission. I saw education as a path to build a better future for myself, my family, to give back to the community. I earned my bachelor, master’s, and doctoral degree all from California State University, Sacramento. I started my career as an elementary school teacher and then transitioned into the private sector. Worked in it for over 15 years before joining the California State University system. Today serving as the vice president where it, I’m incredibly grateful to really have a platform where I can make a difference, whether through large scale initiatives or small impactful moments, my journey shaped by my identity and experiences has deeply influenced my approach to leadership each day. I’m humbled by the chance to serve students, faculty, staff, and inspired by the work we’re doing together to build a more innovative and inclusive community for all.
Joe Gottlieb:
Oh, that’s awesome. I love hearing those stories and that background and and that motivation. I can just feel it in your voice and the times we’ve talked before, it’s always come through. So let’s set this up, this conversation about intentionality, right? So intentional IT organizations serving an intentional institution for higher education. That is serving students that are themselves striving, either striving to be more intentional members of society, or really hoping to benefit from that same intentionality as they grapple with what it even means to participate in society. That’s what we wanna talk about today. And boy, it sure sounds like a great use case for digital transformation. Given all that’s going on, what do you think?
Dr. Bao Johri:
No, I love it and I, I really am gonna agree with you that today’s landscape, the challenges, especially here in the Central Valley, anything that we do has to be intentional because of the population that we serve. The very mission of Fresno State, the very mission of the CSU everything, our strategy, our plan, our conversations, the collaboration from cabinet level to the mid-level, leader leaders to the staff across the board. We are intentional because we do wanna make progress, right? It is about moving our students, moving the Central Valley, moving this region to a different level. It’s about elevation. So I’m really, this is such a great topic. We do have to be intentional. I’m not gonna be, Joe, you and I are gonna be intentional today. We’re gonna talk about some real good stuff and I’m really glad that we’re gonna focus on digital transformation because it is really about, especially with AI in the picture. Let’s focus on that today.
Joe Gottlieb:
I think that’s a great plan, but, alright, digital transformation, what does digital transformation really mean? Maybe maybe share your perspective on that.
Dr. Bao Johri:
For starters, I think from my perspective, digital transformation is fundamentally about intentional change. An ongoing strategic evolution that aligns people, technology and processes. Here at Fresno State, when I think about digital transformation, there is a DX stack, right? It consists of culture, people, process, data, and technology. It goes really beyond just adopting new tools or upgrading system. It truly is about fostering a culture that encourages adaptation, innovation, and collaboration. True digital transformation, in my mind, is truly complex multi-layer process that requires a clear vision, active stakeholder engagement, and consistent open communication. It is not just about technology, what technology can do, but truly about understanding what needs to change, how to make those changes effective, and why they matter to our people, our students, our faculty, our staff, our mission di for digital transformation to really succeed. Intentionality is the key ingredient. You know, intentionality means being deliberate on how we connect people, technology process. And especially with data in that stack, ensuring that each change is meaningful and enhances our mission. By fostering a culture of inter, you know, being intentional, powerful innovation. We therefore can set the foundation for a digital transformation that truly resonates, drives growth, and empowers our community
Joe Gottlieb:
As part of intentionality particularly in the context of digital transformation. Since you’ve, you’ve really bonded those two, which I think makes a lot of sense, right? They are upon us. It is upon us. Digital transformation is upon us, and, and, and being intentional about it’s very is is a, it’s a great way to go about it. Can I, can I infer that part of intentionality is focus and, and making choices. Making choices and prioritizing, because I’m hearing that in your voice, but I don’t wanna put words in your mouth.
Dr. Bao Johri:
No, I, I think you are, that is the message behind what I share is that when you’re intentional about it, you have to prioritize. It has to be your number one, two, and three priorities. You have to be put resource behind that. You have to talk about it every day because that’s how you know, you motivate. That’s how you drive people to change. And so truly to what you just say, these are ongoing conversation. And that’s why we always, hence why we’re focusing on being intentional. ’cause It has to be every day, it has to be our priority, and we have to walk forward towards that sheer mission.
Joe Gottlieb:
Love it. So how are you approaching digital transformation with intentionality at Fresno State? Let’s, let’s go right there.
Dr. Bao Johri:
You know, at Fresno State, our approach to digital transformation is again about intentional gradual change. Much like planting a seed that requires consistent watering and care. We recognize that lasting transformation starts with building a culture that’s open to change and guided by a sheer vision. Two years ago, I formed a digital transformation team with a vision to create a space where our staff could be active drivers of innovation. We began by tackling immediate challenges, zeroing in on areas where transformation will make the deepest impact. This journey led to the launch of the automated university initiative, where we identify key opportunities to streamline processes across campus. The true power of this initiative is in its reach. We’ve empower our campus community to automate their own processes without relying solely on the IT organization. We have become enablers of innovation throughout the university. You know, our efforts extend to also enhancing the student experience.
Dr. Bao Johri:
Investing in our mobile app has been core to include features like geofencing and digital navigation. These tools have really allowed us to provide more personalized notification in reaching the lives of our students. And I have to share, we’ve done some transformative work with our partner student affair. They launched a program called Bulldog Bound, which is a guarantee admission program for high school students. Aspiring to join Fresno State. From an IT perspective, our focus has been crafting an engaging, supportive experience for prospective students through mobile app. We’ve been able to identify the resource along with our partner that best align them, our students, prospective students, to their path to success. And each of these steps has been intentional, really laying a foundation for sustainable, transformative digital future. I have to say, really proud of our team today. Our team collaborates with purpose across the campus, seeking out ways to address challenges and introduced innovation that reshapes teaching, learning the student experience and operational efficiency. You know, this strategic approach has really paved the way in so many ways for AI integration, positioning the campus community to embrace the future with resiliency, adaptability, and the sheer vision for excellence.
Joe Gottlieb:
Wow, that’s a lot of stuff going on over at Fresno State. Not particularly surprised since I did have the good fortune to have your president on this podcast earlier. And I can feel, I can feel the vision coming through and the, and the, and the organizational bond that exists there. So I, I wanna poke at one little item that I, that I want to clarify or, or confirm that I’m hearing. And that is this, you know, there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of it organizations that aspire to mature to the point of being in the service industry, meaning truly serving their customers. They’re often called business partners, departmental functions and different staff areas, of course, faculty and, and teaching and learning, and of course the student. But I’m hearing something a little more than that here, and I wanna just make sure I’m not hearing things.
Joe Gottlieb:
And that is by not only empowering these departments to do more of their own innovation by making maybe innovation platforms available that are digital for them, but that are, I’m sure, safeguarded by the sorts of economies and, and and standards that you, you incorporate by, by delivering this as a shared service that they can each utilize in advance. I, I, I see a couple things. I see you being more proactive. I, i, and, and that’s being in the service business is, is more satisfying than being just overwhelmed and super reactive, but being proactive about empowering is more advanced than being in the service business. And actually, I, I wanna make the distinction, if it’s true, if you could, if you could acknowledge that
Dr. Bao Johri:
No, I, I do acknowledge that. I, I think, you know, this is a great conversation to have about this because, you know, with the landscape changing in higher education institution has to be operating, if you will, or embracing a new operating model, right? Where technology and streamline processes are integral to every strategy. It can’t just be about serving, servicing customer. We have to be a strategic partner at the table. So being proactive is part of that, if you will. That package reimagining, adaptable and tech forward is really the only way to thrive in this phase of change and challenges as we begin. And we will see more shift in the higher education. So we actually, what we’re trying to do here at Fresno is really position ourself to this new operating model for university, where we emphasize a student-centered, technology driven approach that integrates flexible career relevant programs, streamline operations and responsive service to foster belonging and success. And we’re also aligning curricula with workforce needs and leveraging data-driven support, which will help us as a university to remain adaptive, marketable, and competitive in this ever evolving landscape. So yes, I, I confirm and I acknowledge what you just said, that we are really trying to, you know, really be pioneered and really stepping into new operating model.
Joe Gottlieb:
But the beauty here is I’m also one, one of the potential downsides of being too far ahead is, is pushing technology for technology’s sake. And, and, and all the way you’ve described this, I don’t hear any of that. In fact, I hear this sort of more of this collaborative partner empowerment interchange that goes on that that, that, that is needed to then take advantage of what’s possible, but in the concert of what’s the mission? How are we serving the student, how does that need to vary from one student to the next, et cetera. Really, really exciting stuff. Alright, well let me, let me try to double click on what we’ve been talking about a little. And you help me take this into a new domain. And that is, we’ve talked about the emphasis on intentionality, but I want to get into now more of the interpersonal relationship oriented trust related aspects, cultural aspects of this approach, and also then the organizational mechanics behind this approach. So if you wouldn’t mind, those are two pretty big heavy ones. I’ll let you decide how you wanna sequence them and attack ’em, but I know that there’s intentionality here as well.
Dr. Bao Johri:
You know, let, let me just, you know, reiterate that the landscape of higher education is changing and the challenges that comes with it. So organizationally, I think again, in the new operating model and here at Fresno State, starting from the top and I’ll work through the different layers of the organization, is that at the cabinet level, we have to trust each other. We collaborate on a daily basis. It’s when we talk about it’s not just technology, it’s not a problem in student affairs, it’s not a problem in academic affair, it’s the university’s problem. And so if there’s changes, there’s challenges we tackle head on collaboratively. And I think that helps essentially position us to think differently, to work differently, to solve the problem as one. And that has been a strategy. And I think that has helped us, again, to approach our challenge in ways with, they’re very open-minded, and also solution is a university solution.
Dr. Bao Johri:
And I think when you are leaders setting that as an example, there’s a ripple effect that happens across the university. Teams across division are working together in Roman is a challenge across the higher education. This is not a student affair problem, this is a university problem. So academic affair has jumped in student affair, technology from a financial perspective, all have come together to really develop program solutions to solve our challenge and have to say, Fresno resident state, we have done well. Our enrollment is not below what we were expecting. So we have worked really hard. Credit goes to our student affair and academic affair, but I have to applaud the university working together. This is the way to go is that that ripple effect has to carry through to the staff and vice versa. It’s always not a top down. I think what I’ve seen is also people understanding the challenges that our staff are working together.
Dr. Bao Johri:
I see my technical staff working alongside when the financial aid, right, the FAFSA issue came. Our people at some of my staff are actually working at the student affair office. This is the new way to go is that we have to work together. So if, if you will, that is the thing. The second point you brought is, which is I think is central to culture, is trust, right? It’s not just trust, it’s really how do we collaborate in different ways than we have before? And the example I just gave, going to a different office, sitting with them is a new way approach, right? When there’s a problem, let’s step up to the plate and work together. So I think trust is fundamental crucial to the new culture. If it hasn’t been before, it has to be. And collaboration joined by the hip is always something that’s necessary. I think one thing that I think resonates with my team, and I’ve tried to shift this to try to change the culture even in it, is that we are no longer departments in it. We are one, if there is a problem that comes head on, everybody will work together to be solved. Like the enrollment, the financial aid, there are many other, other challenges that we have. And we will get through it if we stick as one team and pull it together.
Joe Gottlieb:
Well, I’m, the way you’ve articulated that is a very advanced and accomplished and pretty unique, I’ll have to say. So I, I, I applaud your ability even to be in a position to describe that, because you wouldn’t be able to describe it if it weren’t real, by the way, <laugh>. I, ’cause I’ve been in a lot of organizational circumstances and, and that’s why I can spot this as something rare. And I imagine, so first of all, let me single out the fact that you’ve accomplished that chemistry, and I’m sure, I’m sure it has its ups and downs at times, which is normal. But the fact that you’ve made that intentional and you’ve tasted what it tastes like, and you’re aware that you’re setting example, you’re leading by example. I’m sure there are times when you encounter people that don’t expect that at all. There’re used to very different circumstances in even in higher ed, which, you know, higher ed has a wondrous history of of the, of its culture and what can, what the beautiful things that happen on campuses of, you know, the, the, the scholarship and the, and the, and all those things are wonderful and the mission, but it can also be very typically a place where the discerning ability of specialists to discharge their responsibilities in their department and the need to do that, and organizational complexity as it is, silos exist.
Joe Gottlieb:
And that’s just the way human nature collides with organizational structures that get large. So anyway, I wanna recognize that it’s quite, it’s quite unique, but I imagine, I’d love to get your commentary if you have any on, on how you help people discover that it’s not a dream <laugh> when they get there. When they arrive.
Dr. Bao Johri:
You know, Joe, I, I think, I think one of the things, and I’m always gonna talk about being intentional, right? The new operating model, when we think about new operating model, we have to make sure we set the caveat that not everything is going to be smooth. We’re not gonna break down every silo in the university. That doesn’t work. What I’m talking about is really working together towards a new operating model. Again there, it’s not perfect, but you, you as leader have to create that vision. You have to be able to paint that picture. I just painted you a picture of where we like to go, what we’re working on. It is not perfect, but because we are working in this new era, I think all higher education, we have to work, right? We have to work this way. As leader, it’s important to be able to create that vision.
Dr. Bao Johri:
You have to be able to articulate and, and talk about it. There are always continuous conversation, and I wanna acknowledge it as a, you know, as a person, these are not perfect. But the important thing as a leader is that the content conversation, the DX stack that I just laid out for you earlier, that is a continuous conversation. As long as there is a sheer vision and there are problems that we need to work and we work towards it, to me that is progress. That is the future. That is the new operating model. There will always be silo, but you have as leader, you have to be able to pull it together and again, have those ongoing conversations work as a team.
Joe Gottlieb:
So you mentioned the operating model, and I believe you, you have a bit of a framework that you use to make that operating model come to life with the specifics of both the mission of Fresno State, but the, the, the realities of what must be done in any given time period as you’re working together and, and you’re problem solving together, you’re collaborating, you’re innovating, you’re completing things, you’re measuring, right? Like, so can you talk a little bit about, about the framework you’ve put together that helps in a digital era as we are all in the cabinet and its respective teams collaborate on a holistic set of objectives?
Dr. Bao Johri:
Yeah, so I, I, you know, what I’m gonna start out with is that and I’m gonna respond in, in a way because we really can’t talk about digital transformation without AI today. So the new operating model, I’m gonna share, for example recently our president, so Jimenez Sal, you know, launch his AI initiative. I’m co-leading that initiative with the vice provost here in Fresno State. And he’s done a wonderful job in, in really articulating what we need to go. And as a CIO I’m gonna share a little bit about my strategy and what that model looks like to help us move forward in this digital right landscape. So, as I said, digital transformation manifests when there’s a clear, purposeful strategy guiding it here at Fresno to say that AI strategy is structured around four transformative pillars. When I say pillars, it could also be used as a framework, right?
Dr. Bao Johri:
So pillar number one, empower faculty to teach and innovate with ai. We, here Fresno instance, say, are committed to equipping like our faculty with cutting edge tools, resource and training to enhance teaching, learning, enhancing research and discovery through ai, we are now R two, we’re committed to empowering our faculty and students to use AI for groundbreaking research across discipline by investing our infrastructure, fostering collaboration, and really driving innovation to explore global knowledge and impact. Another pillar is that we’re driving our workforce innovation with ai. We are committed to preparing our students and the broader workforce for AI driven future. This kind of sets the tone to how we’re gonna be going forward. Our last pillar is that we have to, it’s about engaging and supporting the community with AI in the Central Valley. We are part of the community. The community is part of us. So we are dedicated to really using AI to positive impact our communities by promoting AI literacy and offering, you know, engagement programs in the future for our all of these pillars and in somewhat is a framework to embody our commitment to harnessing AI for academic excellence, workforce innovation and societal impact with privacy and data protection wrapped and integrated to really secure this new error for us to kind of be innovate, but also to drive positive change for us.
Joe Gottlieb:
I love it. And let me, let me say that I am hearing, and you can tell me if this is true or, or you could share that this is something that’s aspirational or maybe not something of interest. But I’m hearing that you’re opportunistically leveraging, first of all, the institution already is an intentional like Fresno State, it comes through, it’s an it’s, that’s gonna be part of what it does no matter what. It’s intentional. Yeah. You’re saying, oh, we’re intentional. Let’s be intentional about digital transformation. That’s an opportunity for synergy. And even though digital transformation could be viewed outside our, our regular normal operations, why not consider this to be all about our operating model and just use the opportunity to be intentional about digital transformation, to be holistically together, collaborating on how the whole institution is in intentional in a, in a digital era. And then I’ll add a third item. Oh, instead of AI being a bolt-on, why not let our, the possibilities and the pressures and the necessities of ai, once again join that singular holistic set of things we’re tackling together. So tackling fewer things, but aligned together as a collaboration versus a series of things we have to figure out how to advance in the evenings and weekends while we do our day job continuously. Do you see the difference?
Dr. Bao Johri:
Yeah, no, i, i, that aligns to what I just shared is, is that, you know, there’s so many competing priorities, right? So many things that we’re doing across the university, if we don’t approach it holistically, we don’t have a framework, we don’t have an operating model to work together. The outcome is not what we’re gonna be ex, it’s not what we expect or it is not all of the outcomes that we’re working. So we kind of have to be on the same train, if you will, right? And again, it’s really about working together. There will be siloed, there will be challenges, but as long as we work together, and again, it has to be holistic, right? It can’t be oh, we’re gonna do this over here, we’re gonna do this. What you just said is that we are gonna come together. It is the framework.
Dr. Bao Johri:
It is aspirational, but it is, it should be aspirational, right? What is a new operating model? It is something that you’re doing new. So it has to be operational, you have to be able to get people behind it. And we will work toward, there will be challenges, but the pieces will come together if we move as one. And that’s why I say let’s get on that train together, that new operating model and we’ll work towards, and again, aligning to the plan, to the new strategic plan here at Fresno State. We just launched a new strategic plan. It will come together. But again, it’s truly about coming together in a new model. Again, we are in a new space now. A general AI has thrown something into the mix that we’re all trying to figure out across the ai. So we should have a framework, we should have a new operating model to work by.
Joe Gottlieb:
Absolutely. Okay. One more question before we draw this to a close. So, if intentional culture is the foundation and intentional organization generates the efforts and that collaborative spirit, how do you see that mechanism or pair of mechanisms enabling the most intentional students and helping less intentional students to become more intentional themselves?
Dr. Bao Johri:
You know, that’s, that’s a great question and I’m gonna try to respond it. But what I do here as a CIO, what my division, how do we contribute to students directly? Because it all comes down to how do we interface with them and what is the impact we’re making directly. So, you know, I lead the university’s IT strategy, the infrastructure, the services with the focus on ensuring seamless operations and integrating with technology and enhancing IT capability across the campus. But a key component of my responsibility is my commitment and my team’s commitment to student success realized through two internship programs within the IT division. And that is the hub of digital transformation. And the hub of cybersecurity both serve as intentional pathways to bridge students from classroom theories to hands-on career ready experience. And this is intentional, right? And through these internship hubs, we provide students with more than just technical skills, right?
Dr. Bao Johri:
We prep, we prepare them to be leaders of tomorrow. And the hub of digital transf transformation specifically really inspire students to apply cutting edge technology, helping Fresno State and the community partners operate at their best. We’ve, I think, graduated over a hundred students in this. And really our students have gained learning and technical expertise working through innovative projects like cloud computing, smart technology, robotic automation, and now ai. So we are intentional ’cause we don’t just take tech student, we take students from all fields and we’re intentional when we put through the programs our structure to ensure that it’s not just about, you know, learning technical skill, but communication, leadership, networking, all of that is embedded in these programs out end by the hub of cybersecurity. Really at this point, we just kicked this off this and this last, this past summer. And it was intentional is that we wanna immerse students in vital skills required to this digital landscape.
Dr. Bao Johri:
We’re preparing them for the workforce and our interims are working hands-on alongside with seasoned IT professionals working on projects like data injection, indexing, basic monitoring, you know developing security information and event management capabilities. So these programs are designed intentionally for this very purpose from the recruitment all the way to the project outcome, providing students with comprehensive experience and skills that not only support their first job placement, but empowers them to lead, innovate, and really thrive in this, in, in, in this career. And I have to, I’ll share last that one of my core strategies for digital transformation here at Fresno State has been to leverage the energy and the fresh perspective of our students. When you bring students and staff together, you unlock a unique chemistry and environment rich in creativity and innovation that wouldn’t emerge otherwise. This, you know, dynamic approach I’ve seen, which has been especially valuable as we navigate frequent leadership transition, resource constraint, societal challenges, and rapid technological technological change. In times like these, I feel that we need to uncover and we need to share this secret ingredient that fosters resiliency and forward momentum. And that ingredients I have found is the synergy between experienced, professional and fresh talent. Each inspiring and challenging the other. It’s this in intentional mix that propels us forward, you know, beyond the traditional solutions and into meaningful and sustainable transformation.
Joe Gottlieb:
I think that’s, I love those programs. I think the best or IT organizations in higher ed sees that synergy and run with it as, as you’ve just described, so powerful. And you’re right, you must learn a ton about the student’s experience that you wouldn’t learn even in the best student satisfaction surveys or other interactions that you might stand up by working with them side by side and, and seeing your infrastructure through the lens of that, those, those collaboration scenarios must be must be really, really illuminating for you in your efforts. So love hearing about that. Alright, let’s bring this to a close. In summary, what are three takeaways we can offer our listeners on this topic of intentional it for intentional higher ed for intentional students?
Dr. Bao Johri:
Thank you, Joe. It’s been wonderful to talk to you. Here’s what I’ll leave you and, and the audience. Three – takeaway number one, digital transformation is intentional change. It is essential. No longer optional. Takeaway number two, be intentional about putting your people first. Workforce investment is no longer optional. Last, the power of student staff synergy in digital transformation is the key ingredient.
Joe Gottlieb:
Great summary. Wow. Thank you so much for joining me today.
Dr. Bao Johri:
Thank you, Joe. Wonderful. Thank you so much
Joe Gottlieb:
And thanks to our guests for joining us as well. I hope you have a great day and we’ll look forward to hosting you again on the next episode of TRANSFORMED. Yo, stop the music. Hey, listeners have transformed. I hope you enjoyed that episode and whether you did or not, I hope that it made you stop and think about the role that you are playing in your organization’s ability to change in the digital era. And if it made you stop and think, perhaps you would be willing to share your thoughts, suggestions, alternative perspectives, or even criticisms related to this or any other episode, I would love to hear from you. So send me an email at info@Higher.Digital or Joe@Higher.Digital and if you have friends or colleagues that you think might enjoy it, please share our podcast with them as you and they can easily find.
