Dr. Andrea Scott:
Provost is an important role that people should not shy away from. What I do think would be helpful is adaptability. It will be an invaluable asset if you’re undertaking the provost role because I can guarantee that external and internal challenges will be present, hopefully not another pandemic, obviously, but how quickly and consistently you assess and respond versus react will be important. The second takeaway is to be careful what expectations you have about how the role will play out the provost role at your previous institutions. Even the ones where you got your degree may not be the same or look the same like fingerprints. Each campus system is absolutely unique. And then the last thing is the quicker that you can identify and lean into how your strengths can improve the experience of those you serve, the better for everyone. You must remain true to who you are to do your best work.
Joe Gottlieb:
That’s Andrea Scott who has some great recommendations for anyone considering the role of provost. Dr. Scott became the provost at George Fox University just as the pandemic was starting, just as that institution was beginning to plan its next accreditation cycle. And just as it had announced a new organization structure for its deans and faculty. As you might imagine, she learned a great deal about how to grapple with external, internal, situational, and individual challenges. I hope you enjoy our conversation.
Joe Gottlieb:
Welcome to TRANSFORMED, a Higher Digital podcast focused on the new why’s, the new what’s, and the new how’s in higher ed. In each episode, you will experience hosts and guests pulling for the resurgence of higher ed while identifying and discussing the best practices needed to accomplish that resurgence. Culture, strategy and tactics, planning and execution, people, process and technology. It’s all on the menu because that’s what’s required to truly transform. Hello, welcome and thanks for joining us for another episode of TRANSFORMED. My name is Joe Gottlieb, president and CTO of Higher Digital. And today I am joined by Andrea Scott, former Provost and now special advisor to the President and distinguished professor of Marketing at George Fox University, the largest private University in Oregon. Andrea, welcome to TRANSFORMED.
Dr. Andrea Scott:
Thanks, Joe. I’m happy to be here. What do you wanna talk about?
Joe Gottlieb:
So, I thought we’d have a little fun today and talk about the topic of, so you want to be a provost? So you say you want to be a provost. How about that?
Dr. Andrea Scott:
That sounds great.
Joe Gottlieb:
But first, let’s talk a little bit about your background, ’cause I’d love to let our listeners understand your personal journey and what shaped the work that you’ve done in higher ed.
Dr. Andrea Scott:
Happily. Happily. I’m originally from Jamaica. I have always loved school and used to line up my dolls and my baby brother and teach them <laugh>. I moved to the States and turned nine in New York, but my dad decided it was too cold. So we moved to Florida and I attended the best of my elementary and high school there. And the teachers that impressed me the most in that tiny little Christian school were all Wheaton College graduates. And I was so intrigued that these people who, to me, could be teaching at the college level, but chose to serve here, all went to Wheaton. I wound up attending Wheaton and getting a BA in visual advertising. I then worked in advertising for BBDO, Wrigley DDB, hamburger helpers, some big clients, was a lot of fun. I was a first gen student of sorts, but you know, we didn’t have that language at the time, so I just went to school and kept pursuing more education.
Dr. Andrea Scott:
I chose Emory for my MBA because it was a top 25 MBA program with stellar marketing profs. I, it had a travel abroad option, and I could be close to the 96 Olympics. And I <laugh> because I knew Jamaica would be running in the track and field. Nice. If I wanted to be close by. Yes. I wound up actually working for NBC for the Olympics in, in their logistics office. And then for a marketing startup after that. And then wound up back in Florida with Honeywell, who I’d done some internship with. And it was when I was at Honeywell. And my, my boss who was vice president, asked me, what do you wanna do? I know you don’t wanna retire from Honeywell. And it was there that I looked up and I said, if there’s a place where I can do ethnography marketing and get a PhD, I’ll go and become a professor.
Dr. Andrea Scott:
And that’s how I learned about the PhD project. I went to the University of South Florida and did my PhD there and completed a Fulbright back to Jamaica before taking a job at Pepperdine. So I was a Pepperdine for 12 years as a marketing prof in the grad studio School of Business and Management, which is the MBA, the master’s programs and the doctoral programs. Then I moved to Cal Baptist and served as dean of the the business school, the Robert k Jas School of Business for four years. And then was invited again to apply for a role, role and role that was to be provost at George Fox University in Oregon. And I did that for three years. And I’m currently a special advisor to the president and distinguished professor of marketing. And I also serve on Wheaton’s board of trustees and had done so since 2015. The bottom line is, Joe, I have an inexplicable love for higher education and its power to change lives. So my hope is that this privilege of a college degree will become more and more accessible to all.
Joe Gottlieb:
Fantastic. it’s a great background and I just love hearing how each story’s a bit different and ’cause I, I see and hear the motivation in your voice about what, what you’ve been doing. So let’s jump right into this. You know, when you got to George Fox, there was a, there was a lot going on, and I know we’re gonna, you’re gonna describe all the things that were going on, but there were a lot of different challenges. And I think that’s the really, the theme of this podcast is not to dissuade, but to arm people with an understanding of what the provost role was all about and how in your case, there were a variety of challenges that that made that role pretty tough. So how would you characterize the different types of challenges that you faced in the role of Provost at George Fox?
Dr. Andrea Scott:
I, I put ’em into two clusters. The first one are internal and external challenges. And then the second cluster are situational and individual challenges. And those two, each of those two serve as two sides of, of a coin. So just very quickly, the external challenges when I started in 2020 was Covid <laugh>, you know that really had a huge impact on how things transpired. And then internally inside the organization, we had there was a reorganization of, of my division before I got to campus. And then from a situational point of view, the other cluster, the situation in the individual I lost a, a key admin person entering into my first summer. And then I also had to, to, to come to grips with the difference in communication styles between how I tended to communicate and how most of the campus did as far as the focus on email and text-based communication. So, you know, hindsight, I can see those clusters a lot better now. And I, I am happy to share more and, and some, some, some nuggets and some takeaways that I hope will help people who are considering the provost role.
Joe Gottlieb:
Ah, that would be fantastic. I, and you’ve, the way you framed that just really helps organize these different types of challenges. And particularly with Covid, right? That was one that was been a wild card for so many people. Sure. So just to hear another set of circumstances that someone dealt with in a specific role like this where there were other circumstances at work. I, I think our listeners will find this very useful. So let’s take into this first cluster, right? So the, the, the external and internal challenges. Let’s talk a bit about what some of those were and, and how you responded and sort of what worked and what didn’t as you were starting to exercise your effort to, to adopt this role. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> within these challenges and the atmosphere that was created by them.
Dr. Andrea Scott:
Good. Yeah. Alright. So we, maybe people want to block it out, but Yes. In 2020, you know, the world went through a global pandemic, and our lives have not been the same since. So the biggest thing was the constant change, navigating the change of the legal requirements. And Oregon had, you know, every state had their own requirements. Our changes were coming just rapid fire, you know, this is allowed, that isn’t allowed as a private institution, we were fortunate that we could stay open, but then you can imagine all the configurations that had to happen adapting to a digital presence. Thankfully, George Fox was ahead of the game and they had those things in place. But the big thing was that we had to make decisions pretty quickly, more often, and with less consultation to a wider set. And I, that was a, that was a challenge, is you’re trying to you know, communicate as efficiently and quickly as you can, but folks don’t really know who you are yet in this role.
Dr. Andrea Scott:
Right. And so you know, I think I shared it. I, I didn’t meet my faculty until like person in person until 2021. So a whole year in the role, we’d seen each other on Zoom and things like that. But the, the quick communication decision-making was, was was burdensome. It was, it was a bit of a challenge. And then in addition to the changes around Covid, there was a quite a dis reconfiguration of the division. And it was brand new to Fox. It was brand new to higher ed. We had not seen anyone who had taken the steps we did to, to cluster the, the very disparate dis disciplines and then put executive dean above them. So it was a, a layer between me as provost and the individual deans of the individual school. I loved the idea of the enterprises. I even introduced it to the, the campus via an 11 minute scripted email. I mean, sorry, scripted video where we walk them through the why and the how. So externally the world has changed and how we do our job internally, the, the design of the, the, the structure for academic division had changed. So those were two huge challenges and changes that, that had to be communicated and dealt with. So all which
Joe Gottlieb:
Is happening, your parachuting into a new role, as you said, you even introduced the new structure before you started via video because it happened between, you know, well it was before you started, but they brought you in, be able to be able to roll it out. Right. Right. So that must have been tricky. And then any kind of change like that, right, where you’re now responsible, you’re a leader at the top of this organization, and you haven’t had the opportunity to build trust, you haven’t had to, you know, to build relationships, right. That are so key, but then covid is happening and all that potential to do that as quickly as you can normally is now obstructed. Right. Okay. Well, that sets up, I think, a good one. Coin. Let’s talk about the other coin. Yes.
Dr. Andrea Scott:
The other point,
Joe Gottlieb:
The situational and individual. Let’s talk a bit more about those challenges and how you, how you tried to work through them.
Dr. Andrea Scott:
So, okay, so we get through year one, and then unfortunately my admin, who was the keeper of all fabulousness in records, she is still just somebody who we all admire Lata to. She had a very serious family situation and took a different position in the institution that would get her closer to deal with, with her her family challenge, you know, stuff happens, right? And I am happy to say that that, you know her person survived and all is well in that camp. But <laugh> back in May of that would be 21 entering into what is easily the, the most intense season for a provost office is using that summertime to ramp up. For the fall I was without an admin. We had another woman who is also very skilled and indispensable, you know, but she was relatively new to this, to the space as well.
Dr. Andrea Scott:
And she was also working part-time and over time. And we were just had quite a knowledge gap in that, in that, that summer. And to the extent that I didn’t realize how much of a knowledge gap there was and the things that I was missing to get done in a timely, and in a way, you know, it wasn’t quite as lockstep as I had anticipated with some of the things. So we had that, that loss of a person and then summertime, where, where, you know, faculty would’ve been willing to, to share what they knew and think they weren’t around, you know, they, they tend to, to take summer off campus. So there was just a kind of a dearth of communication and knowledge building in that, in that, that window. And then the, the individual side of this coin is that I am highly relational.
Dr. Andrea Scott:
I learn through con conversation, relationships, experience, you know? Right. Reading tones and tones of, of data is just not how I get to know things. I mean, of course I will do what I need to do. I’m, I’m a, I’m an academic, I do write, but as far as like how I grasp content, it’s much more in conversation, asking questions, going back to the data and saying, tell me what, what, how do you in process this, blah, blah, blah. That’s just not the way things were gonna happen in that summer. And that summer for building accreditations coming in a couple years was just a real challenge, you know? And the, the biggest part was for me, that summer in going into the next academic year, all my experience had been on outlook. And I now had come to a Google campus and they graciously let me stay on Outlook for a year and change. And then we got to a point where like, Andrea, we can’t continue. We really need you to come over. And I was like, we can do this. We can make the switch. That was a bigger undertaking than I could have ever imagined. And the move to Outlook, trying to find lost emails, learning that attachments are at the bottom of the message versus clearly labeled at the top. Ooh. Yeah. That was another,
Joe Gottlieb:
I have to, I have to speak up here. I can totally relate. Having been a, an Outlook user all my professional career, how much I struggle with Gmail and it’s very different design. It’s crazy. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. And it, it’s, it’s almost like you, you scratch your head and say, wait a minute, this isn’t possible. I’m, I’m, I’m missing some hidden display option. No, it is just so different. And anyway, so I could imagine that must have been really challenging. And Oh, and you mentioned ac did I hear you mention accreditation? So on top of everything else, yes. Not the least of which was Covid <laugh> you had an accreditation cycle looming. Yes. Which must have just turned up, the heat, the anxiety. You also mentioned the admin that thank goodness she was able to leave to be closer to family. But with that there was, there was an exposure there to a lot of institutional knowledge.
Dr. Andrea Scott:
Right. That was
Joe Gottlieb:
Not as available as it might have been. Right.
Dr. Andrea Scott:
And it took us a while to get another person in place. And then we landed with a wonderful person, wonderful person, but she didn’t start till August right before the faculty came back. And so, you know, we were able to, to, we had other folks in the office hustling, and we got it together. But as far as the deep understanding of the rhythms and the the different processes, yeah. There was still, I was still learning you know, as, as, as building the, what’s it, building the plane as you would get ready to fly <laugh>.
Joe Gottlieb:
Well, this is not, this is not foreign to, I think the typical experience in higher ed. There’s higher ed institutions are, are extremely complex, even small ones. They’re, they’re not only delivering a service, which is education, teaching and learning, but they’re, they’re housing students. They are feeding students. They are oftentimes providing medical services to students. They are providing counseling, all, you know, there’s so many value propositions in higher ed Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> that make it super complicated. And then you have to then, under a covid circumstance, shift all that to remote work or, or some combination of, of, of hybrid delivery and with accreditation coming anyway. Tall, tall order. So I know one of the things that you did in sort of, in terms of trying to bridge some of these gaps in communication was, was publishing videos. Tell me about how that went and whether you, you know, how that worked.
Dr. Andrea Scott:
Sure, sure. You know the, because of that initial video I did to introduce the, the enterprise system to the institution, I kind of grew in my confidence for video work. And I had started to do some of this at Cal Baptist before coming. ’cause Covid happened while I was still in that role. And I found that leveraging video helped there. So I thought, I wonder if it could help here as well. And so I just started creating maybe less than two minutes videos every other Friday just saying, hi, good people at Fox, happy Friday. And if there were instructions I had for the faculty, I would lean into those. But mostly it was a greeting of cheer and encouragement because folks were hustling to get our students well taken care of our students safe to make sure they were able to complete their degrees.
Dr. Andrea Scott:
I mean, everybody was working overtime. You remember that? Yeah. And so I really wanted to, to offer a word of encouragement and then as needed include content. So initially, you know, I think it was, it was relatively novel and it was, I think relatively well received. I had, I got lots of good feedback from staff, but over time, I, I learned from faculty who would share that they wanted more content, not, ’cause not everybody’s gonna watch the video or the video maybe wasn’t sufficient enough or going into enough detail. But because it was a campus-wide video, I didn’t want to to, to burden staff with things that didn’t relate to them. But I tried to, over time, add more content to the video, and then towards the end, kind of make the video much less content and just really just greeting and encouragement.
Dr. Andrea Scott:
We had started to turn the corner, the, the, the role of the video changed a little bit because we did weren’t necessarily giving instructions as we were previously. But what that did was hopefully help the faculty at least hear how I sound, what was important to me, my love for how deep my faith was, and why I wanted to encourage them as, as they had chosen to work at a Christian school. But that was one of the ways that I tried to compensate for my lack of affinity with email. Yeah. I just didn’t realize the extent to which this was really a text-based institution and a lot of places are. But I think this was at a level that was still relatively new to me. So
Joe Gottlieb:
Yeah, I think, I think that preference, it comes down to communications culture, right? Yes. Every, every organization, every institution in particular might have a different communications culture. And you could easily imagine with the variance in communications cultures across all the institutions Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, now they’re all dealing with Covid. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. And it was gonna be hard for all communications cultures Yes. To deal with Covid. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. But you could, I could imagine a very email oriented culture Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> under the duress of Covid now suffering all the, all the pitfalls of email culture, <laugh>, you know, now being exacerbated. Right. Exactly. ’cause There’s tension, there’s anxiety, there’s change, there’s rapid decision making. Not everyone can be served perfectly by all these decisions. Right. And there’s also so much less opportunity to nurture relationships with the even episodic face-to-face opportunities.
Dr. Andrea Scott:
Exactly.
Joe Gottlieb:
Which is often an important counterbalance even to email cultures. Right. And so,
Dr. Andrea Scott:
Oh, I agree. I agree. Yeah. Yeah. ’cause the other places that I’ve worked, you know, they’re academic institutions, so you aren’t spending a lot of time on email and written papers and documentation and explanations and then another explanation this time with bullet points. And, you know I think it was just wanting to get content out quickly, but, but kind of missing that, that more rich detailed, even if they, even if they didn’t like the explanation, they still wanted to hear it, you know? Yeah. or they want, sorry, they didn’t want, they wanted to read it, you know? Right. And so it, it, it really was a journey in, in figuring out, okay, what’s the, what’s a good not just compromise, but balance and how can I lean into this more? It became much much better when we brought on, we had this amazing admin who helped to kind of do some triage. And we started to set up some systems for like quicker responses. Right. But again, we were still trying to, to figure out how we’re gonna do this new infrastructure, you know? Yeah. Who needs to do what.
Joe Gottlieb:
I imagine it’s not unlike, we know that different students have different preferences for learning style. Some are visual learners, some are problem solving, experiential, you know? Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> learn. Some are are fine with just texts, like reading and figuring stuff out. And so it is also true that different people have different styles of, or preferences for consuming information. And so when you hit this, this situation where, where connecting and disseminating information both are important. Mm-Hmm, <affirmative>. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> yeah. The diversity of styles under even the best conditions, it’s an effort to to, to be active in all those styles.
Dr. Andrea Scott:
Oh, absolutely. And I think the, the other thing very quickly, Joe, is also understanding what matters most to the people you’re talking to. So the style is one thing, but the content and how it’s delivered and how often and how quickly and who gets to know all those things are things that I think anybody who wants to be provost needs to, to be very mindful of what that looks like on the campus that you’re gonna serve.
Joe Gottlieb:
Indeed. So looking back, like what, what did you say surprised you? What did you learn and what would you have done differently if going through it all again?
Dr. Andrea Scott:
I’ll start with the last one. Okay. Done differently. I would not start a new position <laugh> in a new institution, in a new state where I knew no one in the middle of a global pandemic.
Joe Gottlieb:
<Laugh>. <laugh>. That’s easy. Yeah. Don’t do that.
Dr. Andrea Scott:
I would not do that. I would not do that. You know, and it’s difficult for me to identify surprises because my onboarding was so disrupted by the, the new way of doing a life that the, the surprises are difficult. But what I can say that I’ve learned, I think the main lesson that I learned, and I think I will be a different and a better leader on the other side of this, is the importance of understanding the communication culture at your institution. It is critical. When I compare my experience as a first time provost among the many different kind of cohorts that I belong to, in my modest example in-House versus incoming provost, had a very different experience of Covid. Obviously that’s not a, I can’t make that a blanket statement, but just in my experience if you were in-house and you understood some of these nuanced communication issues you had a bit more of an advantage. And it was just a bit, because, you know, we have to remember just how disruptive it was hard.
Joe Gottlieb:
Anyway, you sliced it.
Dr. Andrea Scott:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I, I believe that success requires an extreme listening especially to what’s not being said explicitly. And that takes time. That takes time to learn. Some of that, I think you become a better listener if you can have an interpreter, someone to help you kind of navigate the thing. Again, the things that aren’t being said, you know, Hey, you know, we used to do it this way. And I was fortunate to have some of those people present.
Joe Gottlieb:
But you lost one in the admin along the way.
Dr. Andrea Scott:
Yeah. Oh, yes, sir. <Laugh>, and again, just kind of missed how, how impactful that was. It, it took a little while before I made the connection. And then I do believe that if you have the gift of time and patience adapting will absolutely pay off because we need to remember that the folk who hired you want you to be successful. Yeah. And so sometimes it just takes time.
Joe Gottlieb:
So despite this being a, a challenging experience for all the reasons that we’ve now discussed, how do you see George Fox and Andrea Scott each succeeding in the future?
Dr. Andrea Scott:
You know, I continue to celebrate and champion the good work at Fox. No matter how much longer I’m an, I’m an employ, I’m an employee, George Fox University, and I will remain affiliated because Christian higher ed is a small, small world. So I, I enjoyed the external speaking and ambassadorship I’ve been able to do for George Fox this past year. And I anticipate more of the same. In fact, I created a website dr andrea scott.com, and that’s to help facilitate more opportunities to serve groups and individuals that could benefit from my varied institutional experiences. I have been at small, large, private public Christian, secular, all kinds of different institutions. I believe in the power of higher ed, and I’m eager to, to keep encouraging folks who want to change the lives of our young people. I’ve been invited to a series of international professional development opportunities in Poland, South Korea including the Lausanne Congress listeners who are familiar with Billy Graham and that work would be familiar with that. I’ll be interfacing with George Fox personnel in, in just about all those journeys. And and, you know, my president nominated me for the CI’s Presidential Vocation and Institutional Mission Cohort. And that was an extremely valuable undertaking. I’m clear on my why and my what, and I’m waiting on my how and my where Uhhuh <affirmative>. So things are good. And, and Fox, Fox is a, is, is in a good spot doing good work. They’re gonna continue to really be a, be a, I think a powerhouse in the, the Pacific Northwest. Absolutely.
Joe Gottlieb:
Well, all right then, let’s bring this to a close. So just to summarize, if you were offering guidance in the form of, so you want to be a provost <laugh> what are some takeaways you’d offer our listeners?
Dr. Andrea Scott:
The first thing I’d say is that Provost is an important role that people should not shy away from. What I do think would be helpful is adaptability. It will be an invaluable asset if you’re undertaking the provost role, because I can guarantee that external and internal challenges will be present, hopefully not another pandemic obviously, but how quickly and consistently you assess and respond versus react will be important. The second takeaway is to be careful what expectations you have about how the role will play out the provost role at your previous institutions. Even the ones where you got your degree may not be the same or look the same like fingerprints. Each campus system is absolutely unique. And then the last thing is, the quicker that you can identify and lean into how your strengths can improve the experience of those you serve, the better for everyone. You must remain true to who you are to do your best work.
Joe Gottlieb:
Great summary. Andrea, thank you so much for joining us today.
Dr. Andrea Scott:
It was my pleasure to be here. I really, really enjoyed a chance to reflect and to to look ahead. Thank you.
Joe Gottlieb:
And thanks to our guests for joining us as well. Have a great day and we’ll look forward to hosting you again on the next episode of Transformed. Yo, stop the music. Hey, listeners have transformed. I hope you enjoyed that episode, and whether you did or not, I hope that it made you stop and think about the role that you were playing in your organization’s ability to change in the digital era. And if it made you stop and think, perhaps you would be willing to share your thoughts, suggestions, alternative perspectives, or even criticisms related to this or any other episode, I would love to hear from you. So send me an email at Info@Higher.Digital or Joe@Hirgher.Digital. And if you have friends or colleagues that you think might enjoy it, please share our podcast with them as you and they can easily find TRANSFORMED is available wherever you get your podcasts.
